where are the sportbooks. There is alot of American sportsbooks not on this list.

 Anonymous @ 1:52 am, December 26, 2008  

There are too many American sportsbooks to list them all Anonymous.

 Sandracer @ 11:39 pm, December 30, 2008  

The last 2 bets i tried to place at williamhills were different prices than the ones shown. Crooks!!!!

 Anonymous @ 5:09 pm, January 18, 2009  

It's worse in the highstreet betting shops. You see the price you want for your horse, then you have to wait in the queue to place your bet, and the price changes. It's been that way in betting shops since the extel days of audio commentaries and handwritten price changes up on the board.

I do agree though, that online the bookies should be able to show the price changes in their markets than they do at times.

Cheers.

 Sandracer @ 9:18 pm, January 29, 2009  

Who Were The Actual First Legal Bookmakers Or Betting Shops In The UK?

◢ It's quite an interesting bit of gambling history actually..

◢ The 🟀first legal betting shops in the UK🟀 were officially opened on 🟀1 May 1961🟀, after the 🟀Betting and Gaming Act 1960🟀 was passed. Before that, betting was legal only at racecourses and greyhound tracks ~ any "off course" betting was technically illegal, though it still happened widely through underground bookmakers.

◢ When the law changed in 1961, it allowed for betting shops to operate legally, provided they were licensed. On that very first day, 🟀around 10,000 betting shops opened their doors🟀 ~ a pretty wild number for day one.

◢ As for who was 🟒first🟒, there’s no single betting shop that holds the official title of being the absolute first to open that day. But some of the early big names in the industry included:

■ 🟀William Hill🟀 (founded in 1934, initially as a postal/telephone betting service)
■ 🟀Ladbrokes🟀
■ 🟀Coral🟀
■ 🟀Hills🟀 (connected to William Hill)
■ 🟀Joe Jennings🟀

◢ These companies quickly established legal premises once the new law came in. William Hill himself was famously against betting shops originally ~ he thought they’d be “tacky” ~ but the business quickly changed direction once they saw the potential.

◢ If we're looking to pin down exactly who was 🟒the🟒 first shop by minute or hour on that day ~ there’s no definitive record of that. But some people credit 🟀Joe Coral🟀 as being among the earliest to get a shop physically up and running.

 Sandracer @ 11:18 pm, April 11, 2025  

A Quick Breakdown Of The Possible First Independent Bookmakers, Betting Shops & Legal Betting Operations, Totes Etc Worldwide

🇬🇧 United Kingdom
✅ Legality Date: 1 May 1961

📜 Law: Betting and Gaming Act 1960

🏢 Shops Opened: ~10,000 on day one

🔍 “First” Shop?: No definitive single shop, but early entries included Coral, Ladbrokes, William Hill, etc.


🇮🇪 Ireland
✅ Legality Date: 1926 (Betting Act)

🏢 Ireland actually legalized betting shops decades before the UK.

📜 The 1926 Betting Act allowed for licensed bookmakers, and retail betting followed not long after.

🔍 Ireland may technically have had one of the earliest modern legal betting shops in the world, though the system was still pretty underdeveloped early on.


🇦🇺 Australia
✅ Legality Date: 1930s onward, depending on state

📍 Australia's system is state-based, and off-course betting became legal starting in the 1930s in places like Victoria.

🏢 Totalisator Agency Boards (TABs) were introduced in the 1960s to regulate off-course betting—essentially the legal, public version of betting shops.

🔍 TABs in Victoria (1961) are arguably Australia's equivalent to UK-style betting shops.


🇺🇸 United States
❌ Retail betting shops in the UK sense aren’t common due to federal and state-level complexities.

✅ Nevada legalized sports betting in 1949—the first state to do so.

📍 Early shops were mostly casino-based sportsbooks, not high-street shops.

🏢 First true licensed sportsbook? Likely something like The Turf Club, opened by Frank Rosenthal (yes, the guy portrayed by De Niro in Casino), though no single definitive shop is officially recorded.


🇮🇹 Italy
✅ Legal betting began in earnest in the 1990s with gradual regulation.

📜 Italy started offering legal betting through the state monopoly (Sisal), then opened up to licensed operators.

🏢 No famous first shop, but Sisal and Lottomatica were key players.

🇸🇪 Sweden
✅ Legal betting via state monopoly since 1934 under AB Tipstjänst.

📺 They operated via kiosks and later retail outlets, though these weren’t like UK shops with races on TV and odds boards.

📜 True private betting shops were only allowed starting 2019, after market liberalization.

❓ Any Globally Recognized “First Ever”?
There’s no globally recognized "first ever" legal betting shop with a name, address, and date like you’d have with, say, the first McDonald’s. Most early entries were part of government systems or monopolies (like TAB in Australia or Tipstjänst in Sweden), not private high-street shops.

 Sandracer @ 11:26 pm, April 11, 2025  

Illegal Gambling Spawned The Legalised Gambling Setup We Know Today

🞖 Legal gambling is basically a polished-up version of what the underground already perfected. Every country’s gambling story is just a tale of regulators catching up with the street.

🞖 Let’s dive into the underbelly a bit and see what’s preserved vs. what’s lost in smokey backrooms▼


🔎 Are There Preserved Records of Illegal Gambling’s “Founders”?

◈ Some stories are well-documented, especially when the figures involved were colourful (e.g. mobsters, race-fixers, or those who went “legit”).
◈ But a lot is lost or folklore, particularly at the grassroots level—local bookies in pubs or at street corners didn’t keep ledgers or leave memoirs.
◈ That said, certain countries and eras have great documented accounts.


🇬🇧 UK🞂 “The Bookie on Every Corner”
◇ Before 1961, bookmaking off-course was rampant and mostly illegal unless done via post or phone.
◈ Street runners and “chalk men” operated in public places, collecting bets in pubs, barbershops, sweet shops—even outside factories.
◇ Records? Some biographies, like those of Joe Coral or William Hill, discuss these early days. Local newspaper reports and court cases can also be goldmines.
◈ The Racing Post archives and British Library have material, though you often have to piece it together like a detective.


🇺🇸 USA🞂 Mob Money & Vegas Lights
◆ Illegal bookmaking was largely run by the Mafia (especially in NYC, Chicago, and New Jersey).
◇ Bugsy Siegel, Meyer Lansky, Frank Rosenthal—these names aren’t just Vegas legends, they started in illegal bookmaking.
◆ FBI and Senate hearing records (like the Kefauver Hearings in the 1950s) are very well-preserved and mention operations, names, and even wiretap transcripts.
◇ Example🞂 Rosenthal ran illegal books before heading to Vegas to manage the Stardust sportsbook.


🇮🇪 Ireland🞂 From Back-Street Bets to Legal Biz
◿ Bookmakers like Paddy Power’s founding shops were descendants of small family-run bookies, many of whom were operating in grey (or black) areas before the 1930s.
◿ Archives in Irish newspapers sometimes mention the arrests and raids of early bookmakers.
◿ Oral histories in local communities sometimes still recall the names of these “gentlemen bookmakers” who operated out of shops that doubled as grocers or tobacconists.


🇦🇺 Australia🞂 SP Bookies – The Legal System's Shadow
◘ SP (Starting Price) bookies were everywhere in Oz, especially from the 1930s–1980s.
◙ These were illegal but culturally accepted—pubs, barber shops, and even taxis doubled as betting fronts.
◘ Many later transitioned into legal TAB agents or independent shops after state regulation.
◙ Books like “The Bagman” or local Aussie racing histories tell great stories here.
◘ Police and Royal Commission reports preserved a surprising amount.


🎲 Common Traits of Illegal Bookmaking History🞂
◈ Bookmakers often had local celebrity status—“honest” if they paid out, legendary if they operated for decades.
◈ Police often turned a blind eye or were in on it, especially in working-class areas.
◈ Many legal pioneers were once illegal operators. William Hill himself ran an illegal credit betting service before going “above board.”

 Sandracer @ 11:42 pm, April 11, 2025  

Illegal Betting & The Real Street Level Action


🞍🞍🞍Before there were betting shops or apps, there were alleyways, pubs, street corners, and makeshift racetracks with punters backing anything that moved (or didn’t). Let’s take a trot through some of the illegal games, bets, and quirks that everyday people used to get stuck into:

🎲 Old-School Illegal Betting Games & Street Bets

🕴️ UK Street Scene (1800s–1950s)
1. Crown and Anchor
🞍A classic dice game popular among sailors and working-class punters.
🞍Played with a mat marked with six symbols (crown, anchor, hearts, spades, diamonds, clubs).
🞍You bet on symbols; three dice are rolled. Payouts depended on how many times your symbol appeared.
🞍Technically illegal under gaming laws until the late 20th century.
🞍Often seen at fairs, in back rooms, or military camps.


2. Pitch & Toss (a.k.a. Chuck-Farthing)
🞍Simple coin game: toss a coin toward a wall, closest wins.
🞍Used widely in schoolyards, army barracks, and factory yards.
🞍Also popular during the Great Depression—punters staked anything: money, cigarettes, even clothes.
🞍Banned in public places in many cities, but rarely enforced unless it became rowdy.

3. Street Racing Animals
🞍Kids (and adults) used to race:
🞍Pigeons (yes, bets placed on which homing pigeon got home first)
🞍Rats or mice (especially in pubs with bored drinkers)
🞍Cats vs. Dogs—yes, totally real: who could catch a rat faster?
🞍Underground betting on dog fights and cockfighting was rife, though extremely brutal and often policed.

4. Raindrop Racing (seriously!)
🞍People would gather under pub windows or awnings and bet on which raindrop would reach the bottom of a pane first.
🞍Seen in war times or on rainy afternoons.
🞍Coins on the table, ale in hand, shouting for "Number 3 on the left!"


🇺🇸 American Streets (1800s–1950s)

1. Policy Rackets (the original lottery)
🞍Known as the “numbers game,” especially in Harlem and other working-class neighborhoods.
🞍Punters picked 3 numbers; payouts were big, odds tiny.
🞍Often run by gangs or local fixers, later influenced by the Mafia.
🞍The “number” was based on obscure public stats (like Treasury balance figures) to make it seem fair.

2. Dice Games: Cee-lo & Street Craps
Played on stoops, in alleyways, bar backrooms.
Highly informal but fiercely competitive, with real money changing hands.
Side bets, double-ups, and quick hustles all added to the energy.

3. Chicken Betting
Not cockfighting—actual bets on which chicken would cross a line first or peck a grain.
Played on farms or at rural fairs.


🇮🇪 & 🇦🇺 Similar Vibes:

In rural Ireland, small towns often had “shebeen” bets—wagers made in unlicensed pubs.
🞍Locals backed:
🞍Horse-and-cart races on quiet roads
🞍Which sheep would wander furthest first
🞍Even tractor races at country fairs

Australia’s SP bookies took bets on everything, including:
🞍Boxing behind the pub
🞍Footraces between two locals
🞍Unofficial dog races down alleys

💡 What People Bet On
🞍Horse races, of course — even if they couldn’t see them, they'd get results by radio or messenger.
🞍Fights — human, dog, or rooster
🞍Dice and cards
🞍Football scores (by word of mouth)
🞍Who could drink a pint fastest
🞍Pub games: darts, quoits, dominoes

🧠 Bonus Oddity: The “Hat Game”
🞍Someone would throw a hat on the ground.
🞍Everyone had to throw coins from a few feet away.
🞍Closest coin to the hat or in the hat wins the pot.
🞍Simple, shady, often run near factories during breaks.

 Sandracer @ 11:53 pm, April 11, 2025  

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UK Bookmakers Licensing Basic Guidelines

◢ To operate a betting shop in the UK, the Gambling Commission mandates compliance with several key rules under the Gambling Act 2005. These rules are designed to ensure gambling is conducted fairly, openly, and responsibly.

❖❖ KEY RULES FOR BETTING SHOPS⏵
Age Restrictions⏵ A notice must be displayed at all entrances stating that no person under the age of 18 will be admitted.
Gambling Commission

❖ Premises Access⏵ There must be no access to betting premises from other premises that undertake a commercial activity, except from other licensed betting premises. The entrance should be from a street or other public place.
Gambling Commission

❖ ATM Location⏵ Any ATM made available for use on the premises must be located in a place that requires customers to leave any gaming machine or self-service betting terminal (SSBT) to access it.
Gambling Commission

❖ Entertainment Restrictions⏵ No music, dancing, or other entertainment is permitted on betting premises. This includes any form of entertainment such as apparatus producing sound or visual images not related to betting information.
Gambling Commission

❖ Alcohol Consumption⏵ The consumption of alcohol on the premises is prohibited during any time that facilities for gambling are being provided.

❖ Publications⏵ The only publications that may be sold or made available on the premises are racing periodicals or specialist betting publications.

❖ Betting Terms Display⏵ A notice setting out the terms on which a bet may be placed must be displayed in a prominent position on the premises.

❖ Operating Hours⏵ Gambling facilities may not be offered in betting premises between the hours of 10pm on one day and 7am on the next day.

❖ Gaming Machines⏵ Gaming machines may only be made available in combination with the named non-remote activity of the operating licence. Appropriate supervision is required for premises offering gaming machines.

❖ Display of Rules⏵ Betting operators must clearly display their own rules that differ from those of the track premises licence holder, especially concerning voids, late bets, and maximum pay-outs.


◢ For a comprehensive understanding of the rules & regulation bookmakers must adhere to, to remain licensed, you can refer to the Gambling Commission's guidance on betting premises licence conditions.

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 Sandracer @ 1:20 pm, April 20, 2025